Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

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K9JPT
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am

Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by K9JPT » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:38 pm

Listed below are three DMR repeaters in my area. What is unique about them is that they enable access to DMR TG 444 (NY Metro System Wide)

If I want to ensure DMR access to TG 444 I must create three separate channels each with their own frequency, color code and time slot to support access to DMR TG 444.

Can I do away with having to create three separate channels in OpenGD77? I tried to figure this out with the online instructional videos and guides but didn't feel I found what I was looking for.

Thank you!

K9JPT


DMR REPEATER 1

Jefferson Valley, NY NY4Z 448.92500 -5 MHz Color Code 3
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

DMR REPEATER 2

Mahopac, NY NY4Z 448.125 -5.0 MHZ Color Code 9
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

DMR REPEATER 3

Poughquag, NY N2ZWN 447.075 -5.0 MHZ Color Code 3 (under construction)
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

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kd2lh
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:44 pm

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by kd2lh » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:10 pm

Note that it applies to channels with group call settings, but yet - OpenGD77 allows you to define a group list, associate it with one channel (where frequency, color code, time slot - channel characteristics are defined) and then page through all the group IDs in the talk group list.

I have to setup separate channels for use with private ID calls (like the 9990 parrot on the Brandmeister voip system), but with OpenGD77 I can setup one channel per radio node (simplex hotspot, duplex hotspot or repeater) and then use that channel for all the group IDs I want to call on that radio by scrolling through the group list or manually entering the group number from the radio's keyboard.

Note that some repeaters are setup with static talkgroups active, others with dynamic talkgroups active, and some prevent them unless they are pre-defined by the repeater owner.

VK3KYY
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by VK3KYY » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:22 pm

K9JPT wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:38 pm
Listed below are three DMR repeaters in my area. What is unique about them is that they enable access to DMR TG 444 (NY Metro System Wide)

If I want to ensure DMR access to TG 444 I must create three separate channels each with their own frequency, color code and time slot to support access to DMR TG 444.

Can I do away with having to create three separate channels in OpenGD77? I tried to figure this out with the online instructional videos and guides but didn't feel I found what I was looking for.

Thank you!

K9JPT


DMR REPEATER 1

Jefferson Valley, NY NY4Z 448.92500 -5 MHz Color Code 3
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

DMR REPEATER 2

Mahopac, NY NY4Z 448.125 -5.0 MHZ Color Code 9
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

DMR REPEATER 3

Poughquag, NY N2ZWN 447.075 -5.0 MHZ Color Code 3 (under construction)
Time Slot
#1 - Group Call TG 444 NY Metro System Wide - FT
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#1 Group Call TG-9998= Parrot audio test (PTT)
#1 - Group Call TG 9 Local Talk Group - FT
#2 - Members Only private Talk Group

Each repeater is ain a different frequency, so you have to create a channel for each repeater.

You could make a zone for all 3 channels if you want to monitor ball 3 by doing a zone scan, but the radio is not SDR and only has one RF chip in it, so can only listen or transmit on one frequency at a time.

This is the same with most DMR radios, and the Dual Watch feature in the official firmware does not really listen to 2 frequencies at the same time, it simply switches between them rapidly, which is what the Zone scan does in the OpenGD77, except the Zone scan can handle up to 80 channels, albeit the more channels in the zone the less often it will be checking for a signal on that channel

K9JPT
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by K9JPT » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:50 pm

So it sounds that in this case it would need to be handled essentially the same way as with the stock firmware.

Stuff like this takes serious consideration and planning. Do you set up zones based on a driving pattern? A specific area? Or by Repeaters?

I must research more what can be done.

Thanks everyone!

VK3KYY
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by VK3KYY » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:07 am

K9JPT wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:50 pm
So it sounds that in this case it would need to be handled essentially the same way as with the stock firmware.

Stuff like this takes serious consideration and planning. Do you set up zones based on a driving pattern? A specific area? Or by Repeaters?

I must research more what can be done.

Thanks everyone!
In the stock firmware you normally have to create a separate channel per frequency per talkgroup.

Hence in your case this would take 12 channels in the stock firmware.

In the stock firmware you can create 3 separate RX Groups, but they only apply to receiving.
In the OpenGD77 the data in the "RX Group" now called a "TG Group", or "TRx Group", the TG's in the group can be used for Tx by using the left and right arrows to select which TG (or PC) you want from that group.


And, yes, creating a codeplug takes careful planning, and you'll probably need to revise it a few times before you get it complete correct.

VK3KYY
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by VK3KYY » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:09 am

K9JPT wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:50 pm
So it sounds that in this case it would need to be handled essentially the same way as with the stock firmware.

Stuff like this takes serious consideration and planning. Do you set up zones based on a driving pattern? A specific area? Or by Repeaters?

I must research more what can be done.

Thanks everyone!
In the stock firmware you normally have to create a separate channel per frequency per talkgroup.

Hence in your case this would take 12 channels in the stock firmware.

In the stock firmware you can create 3 separate RX Groups, but they only apply to receiving.
In the OpenGD77 the data in the "RX Group" now called a "TG Group", or "TRx Group", the TG's in the group can be used for Tx by using the left and right arrows to select which TG (or PC) you want from that group.

You can choose the Filter level, so that only those TG's in the current group, are received by the radio, or you can level open and receive all TG's that the repeater happens to transmit.

You can also close the filter level even more, and only receive on the TG you have currently selected.

But the Filter level is global, and not specific to a channel, because (a) There is no data storage in the codeplug channel data to store this extra facility and (b) most people would probably find the codeplug too hard to construct, if you had to set a Filter level on a per channel basis


And, yes, creating a codeplug takes careful planning, and you'll probably need to revise it a few times before you get it complete correct.

K9JPT
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by K9JPT » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:57 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:09 am
K9JPT wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:50 pm
So it sounds that in this case it would need to be handled essentially the same way as with the stock firmware.

Stuff like this takes serious consideration and planning. Do you set up zones based on a driving pattern? A specific area? Or by Repeaters?

I must research more what can be done.

Thanks everyone!
In the stock firmware you normally have to create a separate channel per frequency per talkgroup.

Hence in your case this would take 12 channels in the stock firmware. Agreed

In the stock firmware you can create 3 separate RX Groups, but they only apply to receiving. Agreed
In the OpenGD77 the data in the "RX Group" now called a "TG Group", or "TRx Group", the TG's in the group can be used for Tx by using the left and right arrows to select which TG (or PC) you want from that group.

If I'm understanding this correctly, in the case of a DMR REPEATER you would create a TRx Group with that repeaters frequency and colour code and then add TALKGROUPS to the TRx Group for example: 444, 9, 9998. Typically, these talkgroups will use the same 'time slot' so a talkgroup can be easily copy paste within the TRx Group and simple change the talkgroup number to the one you are adding?

If my understanding above is correct how many RX Groups can be within a RX Group? As an example of what I mean, I could have the three repeater frequencies in one RX group and then apply the four talkgroups found in all three repeaters. This would mean when I hit scan and travel from point A to point B as I roam into the coverage area of each repeater I would effectively be within reception of each talkgroup. Is this correct?





You can choose the Filter level, so that only those TG's in the current group, are received by the radio, or you can level open and receive all TG's that the repeater happens to transmit. So you can actually listen to talkgroups not programmed into the HT? If so, this could help uncover recently added/hidden talkgroups on a repeater?

You can also close the filter level even more, and only receive on the TG you have currently selected.

But the Filter level is global, and not specific to a channel, because (a) There is no data storage in the codeplug channel data to store this extra facility and (b) most people would probably find the codeplug too hard to construct, if you had to set a Filter level on a per channel basis


And, yes, creating a codeplug takes careful planning, and you'll probably need to revise it a few times before you get it complete correct.

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DU2XXR
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Location: Philippines
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Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by DU2XXR » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:50 pm

Seems to me the TimeSlot 2 in each of these repeaters is a "local" one which is not connected to the Internet.

What I would do is save these contacts

Metro System Wide
TG: 444
Timeslot: 1

Local
TG: 9
Timeslot: 1

Parrot
TG: 9998
Timeslot: 1

I will want to know the TalkGroup number that the clubs use for their "private" TS2 use. You can program those in as contacts as well.


Then I would program 3 channels:

Repeater 1
448.92500 (-) CC3
In the TG list for this repeater, I will include Metro System Wide, Local, and Parrot.
I will also list the TG used for the "private" TS2 contacts

Repeater 2
448.125 (-) CC9
In the TG list for this repeater, I will include Metro System Wide, Local, and Parrot/
I will also list the TG used for the "private" TS2 contacts

Repeater 3
447.075 (-) CC3
In the TG list, I would include Metro System Wide, Local, Parrot
I will also include the TG used for "private" TS2 use

Scrolling left or right selects across TalkGroups bound to a channel in the TG list. These can include a default TimeSlot, but all of the 444 and 9 on your list are conveniently using TS1.

Pressing * toggles timeslots, anyway.

openGD77 comes in promiscuous mode by default, so you'll be able to hear all traffic coming in regardless of target TalkGroup, if you are on the same TimeSlot. You can also filter out by color code or timeslot if so desired.

I think OpenGD77 simplifies all this. Otherwise, you'll need one channel per repeater+TalkGroup combination. With OpenGD77 you just need 3 channels.

K9JPT
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am

Re: Access DMR TG over different DMR repeaters and settings

Post by K9JPT » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:48 pm

@4I1RAC

Thanks for responding and adding a how-to! Much appreciated! There are certainly a lot of cool features to play around with and I'm thankful you pointed them out to me!

All the best and 73!

K9JPT

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