New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

kf4hzu
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:34 am

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by kf4hzu » Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:52 am

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:39 am
Just dropping characters is different from what the position masking does
Yes I understand. I assume you do some math to make the position less accurate before building the transmit packet. It makes sense doing that instead of the documented method since I'd assume it takes a lot less code space. I think this is also how some software does it when sending compressed format.

Edited cause I read the 2nd part of your post wrong :)

Shown in this screen shot....
Screenshot 2023-09-06 074641.png
Screenshot 2023-09-06 074641.png (6.04 KiB) Viewed 1371 times
...at least on my RT3S the FM modulation level seems a little low. The "3(2/2)" should be 4 or 5 as the first digit. I'm not sure if there is a user-configurable setting that could correct this. I didn't see one when I checked.

VK3KYY
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Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:17 pm

kf4hzu wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:52 am
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:39 am
Just dropping characters is different from what the position masking does
Yes I understand. I assume you do some math to make the position less accurate before building the transmit packet. It makes sense doing that instead of the documented method since I'd assume it takes a lot less code space. I think this is also how some software does it when sending compressed format.

Edited cause I read the 2nd part of your post wrong :)

Shown in this screen shot....
Screenshot 2023-09-06 074641.png
...at least on my RT3S the FM modulation level seems a little low. The "3(2/2)" should be 4 or 5 as the first digit. I'm not sure if there is a user-configurable setting that could correct this. I didn't see one when I checked.
The audio level is already higher than some commercial radios

What bandwidth did you set for the APRS channel

Edit.
Where is that screenshot from ?

It looks a bit like DireWolf, which is dependant on the volume level you feed into your PC

Do you have other radios that transmit APRS and can you compare their audio level e.g. using Audacity on the PC to record the audio and look at the waveform

VK3KYY
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:20 pm

kf4hzu wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:52 am
Yes I understand. I assume you do some math to make the position less accurate before building the transmit packet. It makes sense doing that instead of the documented method since I'd assume it takes a lot less code space. I think this is also how some software does it when sending compressed format.
It doesnt save code space, but just dopping characters doesn't give the same level of granularity

Possibly only 4 levels of ganularity is OK.

I can't imagine its worth reporting with masking of worse than 1 deg of accuracy. 1 deg is 111km , at the equator.

Also using values as powers of 10 of a degree gives roughly steps of 100m 500, 1km , 5km etc

Whereas dropping characters gives valus of accuracy like +- 66m or +-660m I'm not sure how this translates into miles

I think 660m is a bit less than half a mile.

kf4hzu
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:34 am

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by kf4hzu » Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:00 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:17 pm
The audio level is already higher than some commercial radios

What bandwidth did you set for the APRS channel
I had it set to 25KHz. Configuring for 12.5KHz does bring it up to level 4 which seems to be the lowest that I've seen from local stations.

I've included a few example transmissions here, including the 12.5KHz one from my HT. The receiving radio is a TM-G707 with its "data" port into an external USB sound device that samples at 192KHz 16bit (can do 24bit but DireWolf doesn't support that).

Code: Select all

KF4HZU-7 audio level = 4(2/2)   [NONE]   _||||||__
[0.3] KF4HZU-7>APOG77,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:!2752.74N/08244.53W[RT3S

KK4EQF-12 audio level = 7(2/2)   [SINGLE]   _:_______
[0.1] KK4EQF-12>APMI06,WIDE2-2:@071258z2755.45N/08249.27W#Sharing The Beacon U=14.0V,T=0.0C

NB9X audio level = 4(1/2)   [NONE]   ||||||___
[0.2] NB9X>APW285,WIDE3-3:_09071451c111s001g001t086r000p000P000h00b10139wDAV<0x0d>

N4GD-10 audio level = 9(2/4)   [NONE]   ||||_____
[0.1] N4GD-10>KF4HZU:(UA res, f=1)

N4GD-10 audio level = 10(2/4)   [NONE]   ||||_____
[0.1] N4GD-10>KF4HZU:(I cmd, n(s)=0, n(r)=0, p=0, pid=0xf0)[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]<0x0d>

KF4KUL-15 audio level = 6(1/2)   [NONE]   _|||_____
[0.2] KF4KUL-15>RW5S5Q,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2:`nHgl{Wv/'"4'}|$-%z(!|!wo-!|3
MIC-E, VAN, Byonics TinyTrack3, En Route
N 27 53.5186, W 082 44.7513, 10 MPH, course 159, alt 52 ft
Seq=285, A1=453, A2=637
As you can see, the lowest is level 4. I think a small increase would be good but I'm happy to do more testing and get more data for you. I included the decoded data on the last packet to show it is a TinyTrack3. In all cases there may be misconfiguration but the average of stations I could hear this morning is higher then the output of my RT3S with the 12.5KHz configuration.
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:17 pm
Where is that screenshot from ?

It looks a bit like DireWolf, which is dependant on the volume level you feed into your PC

Do you have other radios that transmit APRS and can you compare their audio level e.g. using Audacity on the PC to record the audio and look at the waveform
Yep it is DireWolf 1.6.0-413855e. I'm aware of how it works :) I've been working with TNCs, APRS and other digital modes since I got my license over 25 years ago. Packet radio is what got me in to this hobby.

Unfortunately the other TNC devices I have also have their own analog or digital audio adjustments. In theory they are set correctly, but it wouldn't be a fair comparison as they connect to analog radios so there are too many variables. I don't have a commercial radio with built-in APRS but I may be able to borrow one from a friend. I'll check on this and get back to you. For now, all I can offer is my signal compared to others I'm receiving in my area.

If you like I can capture the output of my devices using a SDR.

kf4hzu
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:34 am

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by kf4hzu » Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:18 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:20 pm
It doesnt save code space, but just dopping characters doesn't give the same level of granularity

Possibly only 4 levels of ganularity is OK.
If you'd like it to function as many other radios and software packages do, then yes it is ok :) I haven't personally seen anyone use settings beyond 1 or 2.
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:20 pm
I can't imagine its worth reporting with masking of worse than 1 deg of accuracy. 1 deg is 111km , at the equator.

Also using values as powers of 10 of a degree gives roughly steps of 100m 500, 1km , 5km etc

Whereas dropping characters gives valus of accuracy like +- 66m or +-660m I'm not sure how this translates into miles

I think 660m is a bit less than half a mile.
Yep your method certainly allows more flexibility. It just has no way to indicate to other stations that the position is ambiguous/masked. Deleting characters is the standard that things understand. Perhaps offer both options if it isn't a significant cost in code space? I'm also very comfortable with metric measurements so no need to worry about how it translates. I prefer metric as it is just easier math.

In my opinion I doubt anyone is going to set the ambiguity to higher then a single deleted digit for a handheld radio like this. I've attached a screen shot showing what that looks like from aprs.fi and you can also see your algorithm set to 0.0005 deg which is showing an odd track line because aprs.fi thinks it is a precise position. Neither position is actually where I am located, but my location is in the square.

I think if you offered the standard position ambiguity setting at level 1 and 2 it would satisfy the vast majority of people that want to use the setting. You are right that level 3 and 4 are just crazy large and only really make sense for someone trying to mask a digipeater location for some reason.
Attachments
Screenshot 2023-09-07 100732.png
Screenshot 2023-09-07 100732.png (118 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

ve2wkr
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Location: Silverthorne, Colorado, USA

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by ve2wkr » Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:18 pm

Roger,
Can you please make sure that Daniel's fix for the night theme makes it in the next beta release ?
The 9 03 2023 release still switches to night mode 2 hours earlier then sunset.
Thanks.
Luca

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F1RMB
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Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by F1RMB » Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:52 pm

ve2wkr wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:18 pm
Roger,
Can you please make sure that Daniel's fix for the night theme makes it in the next beta release ?
The 9 03 2023 release still switches to night mode 2 hours earlier then sunset.
Thanks.
Luca
Are you sure the clock is fine (and utc also), and of course your location.

Cheers.
---
Daniel

ve2wkr
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:29 pm
Location: Silverthorne, Colorado, USA

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by ve2wkr » Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:57 pm

all set by GPS. I do not set the clock , and it seems to be within a second of my phone.
it's pretty close to 2h earlier then sundown. ( +- 10 mins )
I set the clock display to local which is GMT-6 at the moment.

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F1RMB
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Location: Grenoble, France

Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by F1RMB » Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:22 pm

Okay,

But what is your reference about sun rise/set correct time ?


EDIT: you could use this website to find the rise/set times (in local time) https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/

Cheers.
---
Daniel

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F1RMB
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Re: New bug fix Beta 2023 09 04

Post by F1RMB » Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:26 pm

Send me your complete location (my email, address is available on QRZ.com)


Cheers.
---
Daniel

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